okay hello to everyone joining us from
around the world 200 of you from 36
different countries we're so honored to
have you as the audience for our very
very important webinar today before we
begin I have a few important
announcements I've been asked to make uh
I'm Steve zipperstein I'm a professor at
UCLA and I'm the associate director of
the center for Middle East development
otherwise known as CED U I want to thank
very sincerely our various CLA
co-sponsors for this webinar The
International Institute the African
studies Center the burkel center for
international relations the department
of political science and my department
the lusin School of Public Affair public
affairs Department of Public Policy um
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the announcements time to get to our
moderator and our panel and it is my
really great honor to introduce our
moderator our moderator today uh my dear
friend Muhammad Abu Baker uh Muhammad is
a Sudanese human rights activist you see
him there on the screen with me now
uh he's a peacemaker with a decade and a
half of Civil Society experience since
high school he's an amazing person since
high school he's founded and led
organizations and initiatives focused on
humanitarian human rights Youth
Empowerment and peace programs across
the Middle East and Africa including in
South Sudan Sudan Egypt and even Israel
and the Palestinian territories and
Beyond it is my great honor and pleasure
to hand over right now to Muhammad
abubakr Muhammad the floor is yours
thank you so much thank you so much
Steve and thank you um Center for Middle
East at UCLA for making space for this
important uh conversation yet one that
um rarely find the platform um the war
in Sudan the Lesser known war uh on
April 15th of last year the war broke
out in Sudan and um between the Armed
Forces uh and the rapid response Force
led by the um the very same generals who
together staged the coup against the
transitional government of Sudan
effectively ending Sudan's um inspiring
transition to De democracy and ended the
hopes and dreams uh of millions of young
Sudanese who peacefully LED um a
movement that resulted not only in
removal of the dictator uh Omar Al
Basher uh but also set the country on
track for incredible and promising uh
reforms um yet these uh hopes and dreams
were shattered um uh in October of the
year before uh when these two generals
who are now leading the war in Sudan
started a war um uh staged the coup
against that transitional
government um the war in Sudan happened
um now is entering its 14th month so
meaning that it started um in between
the war in Ukraine and the current war
in Gaza yet um received very little
attention over the last 14 months if at
all uh not only from media but also from
policy makers who uh demonstrated
ability to be uh you know uh more
outspoken uh uh on on on violations and
uh on uh atrocities that takes place
elsewhere so to shed light on that War
and why this little coverage we couldn't
have asked for a better Trio of activist
um to and of experts who are here today
with us and um without further Ado I
would like to um invite our speakers uh
one by one to present um uh um to our
audience today uh but I would like them
to um make their presentation uh framed
around specific
questions uh the first question is being
where are we now the war has you know
been raging for 14 month uh with very
little updates available on what is
going on on the ground so we'll start
with our first Speaker our first
panelist uh Mr uh Hamed
kalaf uh who should be on the screen
right now and who is a development
practitioner researcher um and policy
analyst and is currently uh a PhD
candidate at the University of
Manchester Mr Kal
thank you so much uh Muhammad and thank
you so much to s for organizing this
very timely panel uh as you mentioned it
has been more than 13 months now since
the war erupted in Sudan between the
rapid support forces and the Sudan armed
uh forces and what has essentially
started as a power struggle between two
generals has now turned into um a
full-blown war with act uh uh you know
transnational
actors in the region and Beyond uh
playing active roles in sustaining the
fighting and fueling uh the ongoing War
um with high risks of the situation
deteriorating in a Countrywide uh Civil
War and we have already seen very uh you
know painful sides of Civil War in
specific parts of the country
particularly in Dar for so the war is
still ongoing
more than 13 months later at full speed
and expanding in new territories every
day and in that regard the latest
development on the ground now is the
siege of alfas city which has been
ongoing for uh quite some time now uh
the capital of North
dfor with rsf besieging the city
essentially and you know um and and
continuing to attack there who are
mostly people who are IPS themselves uh
internet dis space people who sought uh
refuge in Al fasher after many other uh
or all other cities and and and other
parts of the for region region fell
under the capture of the rapid support
forces so these people are already you
know extremely vulnerable and now with
the tack and the besiege of faset they
remain at even further risks uh more
than one million people actually now and
you know there are serious signs of
genocide underway uh while people are um
trapped in Al faser in what is
essentially now a killbox uh basically
nowhere to escape to uh and you know as
the rapid support forces continue their
offensives uh on the City and
surrounding Villages and also in return
the saf and um other Allied groups and
so on are using Air Force uh which
overall resulted in so many civilians uh
losing their lives uh just by being
caught in the crossfire uh it's
estimated that at least 200 people were
killed in the last couple of days in Al
fasher its own so yeah Sudan is the
worst humanitarian crisis in the world
currently uh and it is estimated that at
since the war erupted but personally I
think that is uh you know under
estimation of the actual number of
people who Rost their lives because they
are no you know adequate or accurate
records to show us how many people were
killed uh according to the un uh to the
Bas at almost 8 million people have been
displaced since they started and that is
on top of four million people who were
already displaced before they were
started due to previous uh conflicts and
crisis and so on and at least 7 million
people of those have been displaced
within the country in Sudan and are
facing very dire circumstances more than
half of the country's population that is
around 25 uh million people are in need
of um immediate human humanitarian
assistance and you know on the other
side the humanitarian the international
humanitarian response is Gravely
inadequate um and currently many many
parts of the country now are currently
facing uh a telecommunications blackout
which does not only impede people's
ability to communicate with the outside
world and so on but it complicates and
almost hinders humanitarian assistance
efforts uh because you know this is a
war country a World War T country
basically so um the economy is has
become almost cash cashless and people
re rely on mobile money uh to go about
their daily lives so that Tel blackout
is causing um you know serious uh risks
uh to people uh also in the same ve uh
there have been several incidence of
both Waring factions obstructing
humanitarian Aid delivery in so many
ways uh and that also complicates the
situation even
further in terms of access to health
health care facilities around 80% of the
country healthare facilities have are
either inoperable or
inaccessible uh and also they another
very catastrophic issue which is hunger
around 18 uh million people uh and that
is third of the country's population are
currently facing acute hunger and five
million of them are already in famine uh
and on the international side I think
you know in in response to this very
disastrous and catastrophic uh situation
that I just described but I think the
situation on the ground is even much
more worse because like I said we don't
get enough information because of the
internet internet blackout in many parts
of the country but the international uh
response uh regrettably has been you
know rather slow fragmented and um you
know basically lack luster uh a
lackluster response to the War uh on
different fronts and they have no be
they haven't been any serious efforts to
disincentivize the warning factions uh
from continuing the fight
uh so yes by all measures Sudan is
experiencing a
humanitarian um catastrophe of epic
proportions and I think it has you know
not only devastating impacts on the
Sudanese people but there is also you
know a ripple effect uh that could
potentially go across the Sahel the Horn
of Africa and uh you
know risking the security of of the
entire region basically and
unfortunately the word is looking
away I will stop
here you Hamed and thank you for the
sobering reminder of the scale uh of
what's going on in Sudan um it was a
slowburn um War but uh definitely in
terms of scale of atrocities um uh scale
of Devastation and long-term effect is
by no means less important uh than any
of the other Wars currently going on uh
around the world um and to tackle this
same question uh but probably from a
from a more um anecdotal um uh angle I
would like to turn to our next speaker
um U Miss Abbas Sudanese feminist writer
activist and co-author of uh undoing
resistance um
and most importantly my very dear friend
uh so uh go
ahead yeah thank you thank you for this
opportunity and thanks to all the other
guests um it's a pleasure to be here
with you um I think what how I want to
start is I want to challenge the common
um framing of this conflict I mean many
times in many media Outlets we hear that
this conflict is about is between two
gener
if it is between two generals then I
think um the four of us here you know
hammed we am Muhammad and myself would
not have had our our homes occupied by
the rsf militia would not have had our
homes looted would not have lost
basically a lot of things you know and
it's not only us it's also all the
families um we know and all our
acquaintances um we are talking about if
we're talking about Harum for example Le
a city that had about 10.9 million um in
April 14th
2023 um end of the end of 2023 the city
had less than 2
million and um it had so basically 8
million people or over 8 million people
fled many people um we're talking about
hundreds of thousands of homes that were
looted people lost everything markets
burned down
um so many a lot of our history and our
present has been lost due to this war so
this is not a war between General
between two generals because if it is I
would not have people you know sitting
in my house right now uh militia men
sitting in my house right now occuping
it I would not have had um a lot of the
things and a lot of the things I cared
about basically looted or taken away and
so on this is a very personal War it has
come into our homes
um so it's um this is a war against the
Sudanese State it's a war against the
identity of the state and it is a war
that is like I said our past and our
present is being taken away from us just
to give you an example of what has been
uh just to give you some examples to
understand the gravity of what I'm
talking about and what has been
destroyed um so many historical churches
and mosques have been attacked and loot
you know some of the oldest you know um
you know U religious basically um uh you
know religious entities and venues in
Sudan has have been attacked um the
ministry of higher education reported
that over 30 universities were looted or
damaged in Kum State alone 104 okay like
104 a governmental and private hire in
higher education and re research centers
were looted damaged or burned in entire
universities were burnt um research
centers were looted including uh the the
uh the very important Muhammad Omar
Basher Center for Sudanese studies which
had very rare
manuscripts um this is why I want to
talk about our past you know our past
manuscripts the the books that are so
rare have been burned um by the of
course the rsf militia um many
universities have been looted a lot of
very important work has been lost um if
we also go to Heritage sites the museum
was looted the museum was attacked U
mummies dating back to you know
thousands of years uh were tampered with
this is our history you know our like
danubian you know history and thebian
civilization um Heritage sites were um
you know visited by the rsf militias who
threatened you know damage um the
National Corporation of Antiquities and
museums you know is um was looted as
well and right now you go to you find
Facebook groups that are selling
artifacts and manuscripts dating back to
hundreds and thousands of years you know
so our history is is being lost you know
and so and we have seen attacks on so
many different Heritage and cultural
sites on museums so this is why this war
is a war on our identity it's a war on
the state itself cultural centers such
as Abdul karimani Center were looted the
house of Heritage was burned uh books
you know so many warehouses and
libraries were burned or Lo
so when we talk about this war let us
not talk about it as a war between two
generals because this way we're not
doing Justice to the people of Sudan who
right now are losing just everything
about them and when everything is
attacked the his Heritage civilization
uh education the civilian infrastruct
infrastructure and also of course our
homes you know and all the things we
cared about it's becoming it is a war on
civilians it is a war on civilians and
it is a war on women because we have
seen so many violations against women
violations that we have only seen in
Iraq and Syria when Isis was was you
know uh widespread there you know
selling women using them as sex slaves
selling them in markets so this is a war
on civilians and it's a war on women it
is not a war between two generals thank
you thank you re indeed is not war on
two general
um between two generals and definitely a
war on our very identity as people and
um not only that if I may add we are
also uh seeing the characterization of
it being a Civil War which in my opinion
couldn't be more misleading uh as title
it is war on civilians not a civil war
um that is going on in Sudan um of
course War like in Sudan like all wars
doesn't uh always affect all citizens
equally some suffer the wrath of War uh
a lot more than others um you know women
don't experience War the same way men do
um uh sexual minorities don't uh
experience it the same way ethnic
minorities more historically vulnerable
groups uh also experience it very very
subjectively and to shed light on that I
will turn to our next speaker um G
gender parity uh Advocate and fellow of
the African middle Easter leadership
project um Miss weam shogi we am please
go ahead we am uh we will Circle back to
you while your technical difficulty is
resolved uh but meanwhile I would like
to um turn back to our um hammed and re
uh with the new uh question you
mentioned Hamed that signs of genocide
are are you know are evident in in areas
like Alasia um uh reim spoke of you know
yazidi genoid like um actions being
taken in Sudan again the war essentially
unlike um we am yes it's working so we
will Circle back to you very soon
um and yeah we would like I would like
to know
why if any um why the International
Community be in the media side or in the
policy maker side seems to be reluctant
to show any kind of solidarity with the
victims of this war through meaningful
coverage on one hand of what's going on
or uh through
resolutions um in international uh
bodies like the UN or um in you know in
Congress here in the United States or in
in the European Union why why this
reluctance why this lack of action is it
simply racism or is it more complicated
than that sure uh I can I can start by
speaking a bit about why I think the
media is ignoring the war in Sudan and
maybe R could come in to speak about why
you know Western US policy makers are
not giving the war Sudan enough
attention and I think there are so many
reasons why we could see this lack of
coverage uh you know in terms of uh
what's happening in Sudan many people
try to kind of attribute it now to the
war on Gaza taking priority and so on
but the war in Sudan started six months
before before the war in Gaza started uh
so there was still no coverage uh over
the P the the six month that preceded
that so I think that's not really um the
thing I think what it is is particularly
when it comes to Media uh but also in
terms of international interest uh
unfortunately there's a global order uh
for how things work there's a global
hierarchy for countries and parts of the
world that are more important than other
parts of the
world this is related to geopolitics
this is related to the you know the
importance of specific countries for
specific reasons uh a lot of it could be
you know read within the international
hierarchies the inter the racist you
know the racist the racist structures of
international uh media
outlets and so on uh but I think also it
is this could be also attributed to the
fact that Sudan has been out of the
global uh scenes for more than 30 years
during the bashid regime uh and
particularly when there were sanctions
on Sudan and so on so Sudan was very
much isolated and no one knew what was
going on in the country so I think
getting the media Outlets to become more
interested in Sudan will will take uh
more
time so yeah it's been a low priority
but I think there's also a premise and
assumption that you know the war in
Sudan is more or less business as as
usual it is expected uh in a way that
Sudan will be in war which is a very
problematic uh you know way of of of
viewing the country very dehumanizing
but also very ignorant um you know
assumption and premise that dismisses
the fact that this is not a War caused
by the Sudanese uh people in anyway uh
as as as we will you know we can speak
later about you know more of the
regional actors and and and so on and I
think one one one last point that I
could add is that media Outlets uh and
in you know International the public in
general Global public and so on are more
comfortable in dealing with very you
know simplified uh narratives uh in a
way where there's a good guy and a bad
guy and this is how you understand the
war and this is how you understand the
situation and that's you know it's it's
easier to understand but that's not the
case in Sudan uh understanding the world
in Sudan requires very Nuance reporting
uh from from International media Outlets
because it's very complex it's
multi-dimensional as as as also
mentioned has so many different factors
and and so on and that requires very you
know like I said newon supporting which
lacks on Sudan and particularly with the
lack of international um journalists uh
uh on the ground in in Sudan this is
basically a because of the lack it's not
a priority but also because of
bureaucratic uh obstacles that are being
uh you know put in place by theing
factions I can stop
here wonderful and I actually would like
to cover that complexity and and mult
you know and the multiple actors seldom
talked about and uh for that I want to
turn to uh re who are these actors who's
uh who's steering this war beyond the
generals and beyond their obvious
supporters who's less
obvious yes um I think it's very fair to
talk about the international actors uh I
mean and before that I do want to
mention one thing um the rsf is a is a
crossborder you know militia so it also
um it's able to recruit and it's able to
mobilize from outside the borders so far
it's been able to mobilize from central
Africa Republic Chad Niger Mali morania
Libya so it's been able to mobilize from
many countries because because of the
way um Colonial borders are basically in
Africa so a lot of groups and
communities are spread out across a
number of countries um and they don't
make sense of colonial borders uh the
way a lot of us do so uh so so they have
been able to kind of use this um uh you
know this community of theirs that is
spread out across the sah region to uh
to to get Fighters and this is why you
Contin you continuously have this flow
of Fighters coming into the country um
but the other thing that is important is
also the fact that there are a number of
countries that are involved in this war
first of all a lot of the the the
weapons that are coming to the rsf are
coming through um Chad okay neighboring
Chad and they're coming through an
airport that is that was that is
operating on the borders between the two
countries and they're coming from the
UAE so the UAE is is the biggest
supporter of of the rsf militia and um
and for many reasons the U the UAE wants
uh you know H to be
ow was um he had a lot of business in
the UAE he uh he he was able to support
the to support the UAE and also Saudi
Arabia in the the war on Yemen or you
know the war on Yemen which is still
happening so he was able to also use
this belt to kind of mobilize a lot of
young men who are poor who have no jobs
who have nothing to do to go and fight
uh on behalf of the UAE and Saudi Arabia
in the war on on Yemen and at the same
time also to benefit from Sudan's gold a
lot of as you know a lot of Sudan's gold
Sudan is a very rich country when it
comes to gold and resources uh is going
to the UAE and it's there's a lot of
blood gold involved um the other thing
is also that um Sudan is strategic
because the UAE and other countries you
know in the gulf and so on they see it
as a
potential uh bread basket that can um
you know that can secure the the
food the future basically of food
Security in the Gulf area so there are a
lot of reasons why um you know taking
over Sudan makes a lot of sense but of
course the way they Envision it is that
it's going to be a DRC or a congol likee
situation where you have people um you
know completely basically you know
enslaved uh so they can just work the
land and work to extract the resources
uh to the benefit of different people
and and of course and have a a
government or militias basically that
are just kind of doing this work on
behalf of foreign agents without
providing any services and this is
really what we don't we don't want Sudan
to to become like uh there are other
also uh you know actors we have seen for
example the the
Sudanese Army receiving uh weapons from
Iran we have seen that and it's mainly
because it the Army has not found allies
in in other countries and it has not
found allies in the general um you know
countries that usually depends on such
as Egypt and so on so it has been
getting weapons from Iran uh over the
past few months uh the other countries
that are also in the conflict somehow um
other countries such as you know we've
seen some role for like Uganda and South
Sudan and it's mainly inir trols but uh
there were but weapons were passed
through Uganda we know that over the
past few month and this was emphasized
in an article uh in I think it was the
Wall Street Journal and we've also seen
Fighters and and and some um you know
items food items and and petrol and so
on that is um kind of uh you know uh
that is brought across the border from
South Sudan to to the benefit of the rsf
so it's definitely the more and more um
you know the war continues the more you
see more actors I also want to mention
that Vagner was very um much present on
the side of the rsf so we have seen
Vagner on the side of the rsf supplying
them with uh with different different U
equipment you know surveillance
equipment and so on and also
intelligence and also ways of working
and training and we have seen also the
Ukrainian Special Forces fight and doing
Special Operations against Vagner in
Sudan uh with the support of the
Sudanese Armed Forces so any work could
become a proxy war if it if it um ra
rages on long enough and if basically um
a lot of people see interest in making
it
so thank you uh uh re uh for you know
peing through that onion and layers of
uh of actors in this uh conflict again
something that I noticed is very little
understood uh even with policymakers I
talked to who I assumed would know uh
more uh it turned out like even
explaining who the players are uh is a
real challenge um when it comes to Sudan
uh as simple as it might may sound to us
um to many of the international actors
it's indeed a very uh
challenging um
want to grasp so uh at this point I
would like to actually uh ask all our
speakers to turn on their cameras and um
I would like to Circle back to we am uh
at this point uh please we am um I will
repeat the question I asked of you uh
which is the war in Sudan and you know
like every uh war that ever took place
anywhere in our
planets usually okay I hope you hear me
well now
yes H it affects different groups
differently what is the effect of the
last 14 months on women on LGBT on
vulnerable communities and historically
marginalized communities across Sudan uh
okay okay uh as I said before and no one
hear me I'm sorry for my technical issue
I'm going to start with two stories one
of them is Bash Basher his name is Bash
was his name is is Basher he's been
killed uh Yesterday by the rsf militia
because he's serving food and they
didn't allowed anyone to even bury him
and another one tawa tawa she's my
friend and today we supposed to have our
aniversary anniversary for 14 years of
friendship she lost her life because the
lack of oxygen uh may Allah is their
soul in peace uh and all the souls we
lost because the kidnapping raping
um and killed an unsafe born that
leading us to the the the different
situation and the different group you
say uh you mentioned before I'm going to
say like a quick B uh the discrimination
against que people uh this war stoping
hermone medic U medicine for the
transgender people and all the
vulnerable sexual group facing
harassment uh internally from the
different community and outside
especially by the organiz or
International Organization they should
help them they facing all the harassment
and the sexual and reproductive health
and lack of senary bath and the lack of
Clean Water okay and now we lost or uh
there's
and unsafe
bir uh we we need to ask from from the
international humanitarian Aid
especially humanitarian Aid to
generalizing the humanitarian Aid we
need the C but we need different
solution and if they want to do that
they should to communicate with the
Grassroots movement not dealing just
with the government it's not even being
with the people in the in the shelter
house but unfortunately the government
let uh they send them out of the shelter
houses and they've been in the street
without food without anything and as Dre
says this is the this world it's against
us as personal it's against us thank you
mamed thank you very much uh we am and
um yes I would like to um to actually
Circle back to the question of
International Community um and the um
the response or lag thereof um and I
would like you all to just you know
again why why is the US not acting um
the way it should be acting or is able
evidently to act uh in response to
Sudan um through the right resolutions
the right policies uh why is the EU uh
not um prioritizing Sudan or um the
crisis that it's going through even
though it will have a very direct impact
impact on the EU um especially the
European States biggest anxiety
immigration is um is certainly present
uh with the Sudan conflict uh as you
know the number of U the number of
displaced grows so uh will the number of
those arriving to Europe uh will
increase why are we not seeing
appropriate um reactions or
interventions I would like to start with
uh with dream on this one um and
specifically to address the Us Part as
an American it's important to me to
understand what is going on and why are
we not how it took more than you know
almost a year to get an anoy uh
appointed for this purpose what is going
on
yes uh I think you have to start my
camera or help you start my camera I
think um I really want to be very
specific when it comes to you know
Western countries in in general and I'm
also going to talk about the US I think
for the for the West in general it's
just the way they do diplomacy now and
especially the US the US doesn't has
been de prioritizing diplomacy of course
for the sake of you know um not going to
say militarization but securitization of
different of of the way they do
diplomacy and of and this has been
documented by many you know us
intellectuals and so on um but the way
they deal with many countries you know
like Sudan is they Outsource diplomacy
so they Outsource it to their allies and
their allies um and their friends in the
region happen to be you know the gulf
countries mainly uh so UAE and and and
Saudi Arabia um and UA the UAE because
of its uh money and also because of its
soft power uh you know it has been of
course investing a lot in like think
tanks and you know and and the Arts and
so on it has been so it has really you
know um increased its ability to become
an ally and its ability to have kind of
an impact uh so it so yeah like I said
the US is outsourcing its diplomacy to
its allies and expecting them kind of to
do this work um with the same values you
know know not not taking into
consideration that sometimes when your
allies themselves you know especially
the UAE are part of the conflict and are
problematic so right now we continue to
press you know on the US and and other
countries and telling them that you know
um you have to continue putting pressure
on the UAE but a lot is involved you
know the UAE is really just um impacting
and influencing a lot of politics around
the world uh you know and um just so
many things happening where they they
invite politicians to do lectures they
are investing a lot of money and
resources to make sure that a lot of uh
that um a lot of countries are basically
always that they always have the
interest of the UAE um the other thing
that I also want to mention is um
there's a lot of um misinformation and
actually I would call it disinformation
when it comes to Sudan and a lot of this
has seeped into um this the this the the
US government so right now you do have
um you know senior level diplomats
within the US government who have really
bought into this disinformation campaign
uh that is being uh spread by the rsf
and its allies you know indicating that
this is you know a terrorist Army all
its supporters are terrorists and they
have to be fought and and the only way
to save Sudan is to basically bring this
you know um some politicians you know
who claimed that they represent the
Sudanese people um and yeah so
unfortunately this disinformation has
been sold because a lot of money again
is invested uh you know into making it
into making it happen and it's making it
very difficult uh for the diplomats to
engage with any forces outside the
forces that continue to claim that they
are the legitimate force that represent
the people of Sudan thank
you wow I would like your your reaction
to that hammed how do you how do you
view um that um is it is it working is
really the characterization as a a
terrorist Army of islamist versus you
know uh the other um uh kind of
terrorist terrorist militia uh genocidal
militia is that narrative uh present in
in your whole the HS of powers you are
uh you know more intimately familiar
with
I think there's there's there's a lot of
confusion uh from from from from the
different uh International uh policy
makers a because I think they have
always had this very um you know
problematic and shallow engagement with
Sudan which depends on either dealing
with the military leaders because they
hold the guns and because of uh the very
securitized kind of approach that just
spoke about also or like other military
leaders or political Elites who come in
conventional uh structures that are easy
to deal with and that are you know they
speak the language of international
actors and and so on uh so this is one
of the you know fundamental and you know
reoccurring issues that hinder uh proper
diplomatic engagement uh and then with
the war there's the war that's happening
on the ground and then then there is
also the war a war of narratives and
everyone wants to define the war in a
specific way uh I mean engaging with
different uh policy makers International
uh from different countries and so on
yes I can see some buying into a
specific narrative uh particularly I
think the idea that the biggest fear is
the return of the islamist uh if the
military is continues being empowered
and and so on uh and then others you
know uh seeing the other way around and
so on but I think there's
there's all of these narratives are
partially true there's some truth to
everything that and that's why I say
it's it's multifaceted like the RO
support forces are attacking civilians
in a on a very personal level uh they
are
you know committing all these atrocities
that is important to be said and to be
documented and and so on um the
influence of the islamist on the Army is
happening and it's important to be uh
you know thought about and so on and I
think in the International Community
cannot engage properly without engaging
with a wide range of U civilians who
would bring in all of these different
views that need to be taken into account
when thinking about the peace process
and I think that's why one of the key
issues that we have been trying to
Advocate is that you know the
International Community tries to engage
with Sudan and they keep on saying that
we are engaging with civilians and so on
but when they engage with civilians they
engage with specific Elites in the
current context with the group called
tum headed by the former prime minister
uh abam and so on and I'm not saying
exclude them and don't talk to them but
do not treat them like the only
legitimate representatives of the
Sudanese um civilians when they have
very little legitimacy inside the
country they have more legitimacy with
you know International actors and and
and foreign Avenues and and so on but
their legitimacy inside the country is
is is very much uh has been damaged for
for years now so I think having a better
approach and being able to understand
what the world is and and being able to
you know grasp all these different
narratives and how to tackle requires
proper engagement that starts with
engaging with the right
actors very interesting and just to
piggy back on your your comment I would
like to um to ask to throw back a
question again to you who are who do you
think are the other uh civilian
Representatives that could be spoken to
uh you know if
not because I do get this
question so please so they have been
different I mean it it depends on what
questions are you asking so now a lot of
there have been a lot of discussions
about the humanitarian response and the
humanitarian responders on the ground
and so on and then we had a recent uh
conference in Paris for for pledging and
and so on on on the side there was a a
civil society uh seminar and and and so
on that brought political leaders and
not humanitarian responders on the
ground uh when the emergency response
rooms who have been the front line of
the humanitarian response as for the
past year and so on are very much active
are doing the work that they need to do
um well doing more than the work that
they should be doing actually
shouldering the inter the whole
humanitarian response on their own so
there is the human emergency response uh
rooms and they are not all called the
emergency response rooms but they're
different uh civilian Le uh Mutual Aid
initiatives that are operating uh all
all over Sudan there is the resistance
committees who have been um you know
leading on the pro-democracy
mobilization for the past five years
obviously now the change of
circumstances their priorities have
changed and focusing more into the um
more on the humanitarian side but the
political agenda and pro democracy
agenda are very much alive there are
various Civil Society groups including
University uh initiatives that have come
out throughout the past few months um in
the new uh centers of displacement uh
now in Cala in Nairobi uh and so on
there are different Civil Society groups
that are trying to you know get
different uh initiatives up and up and
running however these initiatives are
not
as uh you know sharp and well put
together like initiatives that have come
from tum for instance because tum is
being funded by the Internet by
International um actors and uh they have
been empowered to get hop on planes and
travel to uh
different cities to Advocate and so on
so there isn't a single conventional
organized uh structured group that I
could point you to but there are so many
smaller groups uh that if empowered and
if um allow the seat at at the table
would bring a lot more than with El
political Elites could do thank you
hammed uh we have about 10 minutes left
at for of this portion of the panel and
I would like to squeeze in two questions
to our speakers in this time uh but
first of all I want to give just context
to our listeners who may not be familiar
with the emergency rooms and resistance
committee resistance committees are uh
youth groups that uh for the past five
years have actually been the de facto um
drivers of the democratic movement uh
but who uh had to turn themselves into
um the de facto aid providers uh during
this war and conflict in Sudan um so
democracy activists and humanitarian
have been filling their humanitarian uh
Gap in Sudan for the past 14 month um
again access of Aid uh and access for
international organization is nearly
non-existent in Sudan um and uh these
groups have been filling that Gap and
keeping Sudan from descending into full
uh fledged famine and full-fledged um
chaos uh so uh kudus to these young
women and men all over Sudan uh leading
that important work and speaking of that
I want to actually turn to our um uh
speaker we am to uh shed light on some
of the work being done by um by these
groups and by these activist coalitions
on uh on the needs for women um uh in
particular in Sudan right now again the
war does not affect everybody equally
and some groups experience it harsher
than others so I would like to see what
work is being uh hear from you what work
is being done uh and what could be more
could be done to
support I'm sorry Muhammad because
because we are limited of time I'm going
to say something before go to the
emergency room we should to give a
highlight this War uh affecting an woman
case rape being documented and this not
actual number and this systematic rate
being filmed and published on Facebook
or social media platform by the rsf
Malaysia and this rap is starting from
12 years old as a children and one of
those children being uh being pregnant
and give birth now after when year this
war started and there is a lot of uran
children they they have no houses no
families and even no IDs uh back to the
emergency room um they are
heroes thousand of them working for
nothing just to helping people they
being killed being arrested being
kidnapping and they provide water
provide the r protocol we lost it from
the International Community no one give
us and there's a big lack and big
problem to receive money donation uh to
Sudan because the bank uh system and
Muhammad can say a lot about that and uh
they collecting money they try to
provide in food and even there is no
education now in Sudan all the schools
it's a shelter rooms shelter places for
the people and those people even uh we
film them a lot of them a lot of time
but even it's not that safe to talk
about them but those those guys they are
available on social media they work not
just the government work more than
government work especially in Al
therefore even to build a house against
the rain and uh work with the people who
have cancer working with the old people
and try to um displace people to a safe
space uh to Safe places and they are
heroes and that what we asked from the
International Community to deal with the
Grassroots movement they know and they
work for five years now it's not just
starting with the war it's happening
with a five years ago starting with the
revolution started and when this War
start in the first day they be they
shifting their work the political active
to Wi virginy room actors uh that's all
about them but even we if we talk about
them till tomorrow will never finish the
her the hero's story of them thank
you thank you we am and um yes I think
the point to take away from that there
is no lack of people to talk to uh in
Sudan uh and people who are meaningful
act you know meaningful actors doing
good work on the ground in Sudan so uh
the excuse that this is the only people
we can talk to we are able to talk to is
really is really lame one uh there is no
lack of people um and groups that uh the
International Community can engage with
um I would like to now turn to uh
to we talked about all the negatives uh
all what is not being done what is being
done who is intervening uh to stop this
um atrocity in Sudan uh what players are
playing a positive role right
now just to also reiterate what uh weam
said um a lot of the humanitarian effort
is led by the community you know and I
think even if the war stops tomorrow the
community will continue to be um at the
center of this you know and this is
really a testament to one thing that she
and I want to reiterate it is that
people have managed to find ways to
govern themselves communities that are
in neighborhoods that are affected by
war that are completely cut off from any
Services have found ways to govern
themselves and reorganize their lives
they've started soup kitchens to so they
can all at least eat one meal a day
they've started classes for children
they have found ways to protect each
other and so many mechanisms basically
to to ensure that the community is
healthy is safe and continues to be
together so definitely the the local
committees have shown a lot of bravery
and a lot of uh and a lot of work a lot
of the funding I also want to emphasize
that a lot of the funding that goes into
feeding and making sure that people are
are doing well um actually comes from
Sudanese people inside Sudan and in the
diaspora so a lot of concerts a lot of
you know um people basically paying
money on a daily basis a lot of
campaigns that people donate to on a
regular bases and um so right now a lot
of the humanitarian Aid is actually
sourced by the community that is
supporting each other I also want to
emphasize on the role of like women's
groups you know um um that have been
doing tremendous work uh to shed light
on the situation um you know uh one of
them for example I would start with you
know sua who leads the the the the the
unit basically on combating violence
against women and children she has been
very brave it's a difficult situation
but she has continued to come out to to
to give us information about the sexual
violence that is happening against women
and so many others you know local
initiatives um you know that such as
initiatives to stop sexual violence um
has been also trying to document and not
only trying to document document and
provide psychosocial support and also
provide uh uh money for the families to
be able to move from the place where
this violation happened to a safer place
just so the the women are able to heal
and are able to get the services that
they need and this work has been
tremendous it's a lot of building an
infrastructure to make sure that
everything is into place to make sure
that they are people that are able to do
this kind of work and uh so a lot of
people are are donating their time and
resources to be a to make sure that the
survivors are given another chance and
that they are taken to a safer place um
women groups that are also trying to to
do work at the political level I also
applaud them because they are continuing
to fight you know as a system I mean war
is also the the optimum you know
militarization you know so women are not
really present basically because uh once
there's War you if you don't have a gun
you don't have an opinion right so but
they are continuing to press and they're
continuing to to to Really Trying to
Find ways to talk to the sides of the
conflict and to find ways to be part of
the ceasefire committees when they were
happening and to find ways to just kind
of um you know just think about and
visualize and you Pathway to peace and
um through online discussions through
different discussions that are happening
so a lot of work is is is being done and
and a lot of work is being done by women
and a lot of the humanitarian uh efforts
are being led by the communities and we
have to applaud them for
that fantastic thank you so much re and
we are at the top at the end of this
portion of our panel but I really want
to squeeze one last question and this
time to hammed uh
please um uh in in a minute and a half
uh tell us who is leading an
intervention on on the uh state level um
not U not not in Sudan uh or Regional
actors leading intervention right now we
know there is um The jeda Forum um and
we would like you to tell tell us more
about that and who is leading similar
positive initiatives to end the war in
Sudan sure uh so I think there has been
internationally ATT tendency to allow
the African Union and the Ard to lead on
the mediation and to lead on the
resolving the situation in Sudan and I
think that is quite problematic because
these very institutions are implicated
in what's happening they are biased and
they don't have neither the capacity nor
the Integrity to do that uh and I think
the idea that you know the notion of
African uh solutions to African problems
is invalid here because this is a this
is not an African War uh or an African
issue there are many actors who are part
of this who are not African uh so I
think that that has been where most of
the the issues in terms of the peace
process has been happening and why it's
been stooling and so on on the other
side there's been the uh jeda platform
which was convened by Saudi and the US
and I think this was the only platform
that has gained traction it has been
helpful in leveraging you know u a bit
of humanitarian uh resp Aid to get into
the country to open some humanitarian
corridors uh through that also uh
internation actors were able to uh
secure very short peace Fires for their
interests uh I would have to say for
evacuating specific un delegations
specific groups and and and and and so
on or diplomats and so on so I think
that that that platform has potential to
work if more power and more um you know
more mediators and different
International actors would come uh to
that to that platform and support it and
and encourage it basically but also for
civilians to be part of it because
keeping this cycle of you know engaging
with the military leaders uh only um to
solve the power and rewarding you know
Waring factions forwards and so is quite
problematic but I think that platform
has has all sorts of problems but has
potential and there there there's a lot
to be done to get it uh
working thank you Hamed and we will now
turn into the uh Q&A portion of our
panel I would like to remind all our
viewers to use the um the Q and uh Q&A
uh section of our um Zoom webinar to
post that question and please remember
to include your name your country and
affiliation so um with that I will turn
into our very first question uh that
came uh from alen [ __ ] from United
Kingdom uh who uh
asked who outside Sudan is feeling this
war we partially covered that but I
would like to throw it to all of you um
question
anyone I think R did a great job uh
covering that earlier but just to
reiterate I think you know the biggest
uh actor outside Sudan that is that has
the biggest influence currently on the
sustaining the war in Sudan is the UAE
the United Arab amates then to a lesser
extent there are some other actors
involved uh there's Russia there's
turkey there's Egypt there's
Iran there's uh
SOI different countries have different
interests but I think at the at present
the main actor uh that that has been
playing the largest po negative role is
is
thees thank you hammed and we have
also I want to reiterate on what hammed
said and also mention that uh right now
the rsf is um putting Al faser the
capital of North dfor State on Under
Siege and as you know the rsf controls
uh four states out of the five states in
therefore four this is the last state
basically and as a result this not only
has it has like 1.2 million people but
also an
who have sought Refuge from other parts
of their for so we're talking about at
least two million people you know um in
Al faser and the rsf has been attacking
the city and trying to enter for the
past uh you know few weeks and um it and
especially in the past 10 days they have
been doing it almost on a daily basis
they have been launching a attacks and
it just so happens that the their planes
coming from the UAE to the specific
airport in chat that is supplying the
rsf with weapons almost every day over
the last eight um uh eight days so um
it's not a coincidence you know right
now the city could fall millions of
people are at risk and um the weapons
continue to come from the
UAE all right actually re since you
unmuted stay unmuted because this
question is for you specifically from
Brendan no University Montreal Canada um
he's asking be you have explained that
the war is being waged against the very
identity of Sudan and Sudanese people
for what purpose exactly if destroying
this identity is a political goal in
itself Beyond making money and looting
why why is it happen yes
I mean it's you know it is um I'm trying
to give you a short answer because of
course it is um there is a longer answer
about the fact that Sudan itself I mean
it is a colonial construct right it is a
number of countries that were brought
together you know by a colonial Force so
the country itself was never uh very
much um I would say um it it was never
coherent it was never really well put
together uh not only of course because
you know the the the col what the
Imperial forces did but also because of
the postcolonial governments that
continue to fail uh but I think what is
very interesting is that uh the whole
Narrative of the rsf right now under
mouthpieces they continue to reiterate
that this state does not represent them
uh this identity does not represent them
and they have shown a lot of disdain to
um a lot of the the things that we think
are uh very much to the needs at bring
people together like the music for
example that is broadcasted from the
main you know umder man radio they have
shown disdain to a lot of cultural uh
you know practices that we that were
that are very much widespread across
Sudan so um so it is definitely
interesting to see that this is a force
that has an an ideology that is against
the identity of the state because they
believe that it does not represent them
and that it represents certain
communities in Sudan and this is what
their their claim so what they are doing
what they do want to do and this is um
again reiterating the some of the things
that I have heard them say over the past
few months is that they want to take
over the state and they want to um
change the entire identity of the state
from the uh from the flag to the name to
the uh to the to the mute to what we
listen to to the to to to everything
basically um I think
right now it's also important to note
like just what I said earlier about the
fact that the the nomadic groups that
are largely you know in the rsf the
nomadic groups from Western Sudan have
extensions in different parts of the sah
and it so happens that the nomadic
groups in the sah region are uh
completely impoverished very poor living
in places where where a lot where where
water is very sacred so they want a
Homeland we're talking about people who
are minority in different countries uh
who are discriminated against uh who
never felt home I mean in Niger for
example they were kicked out a few years
ago and they want a Homeland they want a
Homeland and Sudan has denial it has
water it has uh it's it's different for
them it is definitely something that
they want to fight for uh so I think
we're talking listener to explain a
little bit uh the ethnic makeup of these
um of these uh yeah groups yes if you
can I mean okay so generally the rsf the
I would say the core groups that are
mobilized by the rsf they are uh
basically cattle herders you know from
different parts of Western Sudan so they
are nomadic groups basically you know
they uh hurt cows and cattle uh so those
are the core groups that are represented
in the rsf and they are the groups that
the RF has been mobilizing from like I
said the groups we're talking about
they're not restricted by Colonial
borders they're very much they are
present all across the sah as well as
North Africa so you also find them in
Libya you find them in Morocco you find
them and so on so um they don't believe
in borders they are their cousins
they're able to mobilize and this is why
you it is not uh you know strange to
find people coming from Mali to fight
for the rsf because they're cousins and
what brings them together is that like I
said they are minority groups in the
different countries and they are
discriminated against and also the sah
region has a huge problem when it comes
to Water Resources so we're talking
about people whose cattles are dying
because they're going thirsty and they
are thirsty themselves so we're so I
think yeah there are people that are
looking for a Homeland and this has been
said and discussed again in many of the
uh the conversations that we're hearing
online by their mouthpieces that are
following very closely to understand
their motives and also to understand how
for them this is an existential War
they're dying in large numbers but for
them this is a war that they will
continue fighting until you know the
last basically member of their Community
because they believe that um if they
don't then uh a lot of people will turn
against them and they'll become targeted
and so on so a lot of it is really right
now is driven by fear of the unknown so
it is an existential War for them thank
you um and just to explain some more for
for those um unfamiliar with the bedwin
communities of Africa it's yes often
characterized as Arab um but uh I must
note that they don't really have
subscribe to Arab nationalist in the TR
you know nationalism in the tradition
sense they are uh yes they find their
Roots uh they contrast their roots to
Arabia um an ethnic U makeup definitely
comes from that part but they are they
have largely been in in that region for
hundreds of year and don't really
identify even within Arab countries and
Arab nationalist States they uh are
still Outsiders and minorities uh in a
place like Egypt you will find the beds
in sini completely isolated from the
rest of the uh largely Arab Nation um
with that I would like to turn actually
to another question uh very interesting
one from uh Patric uh nicolini professor
of history in and institutions of Africa
at the Catholic University in Milan uh
patris is asking uh could you tell us
about a the role of China and two the
role of religious
presences um you can take that on hammed
or any of
you I think hammed you probably would be
the most suited for this question
particular I think the the role of China
has been quite subtle and quite ever
since the revolution started in in in
2018 and uh probably you know I think
it's
it that has been the strategy all
through when there's political
instability and political changes and
Democratic processes and and so on that
is not where they like to operate so
they've had the obviously Chinese
businesses will continue running in the
country and so on but they had very
minimal uh political engagement with the
transitional
Government after after the revolution
unlike the very strong political ties
that they had with the regime of Al
Basher after the war they continued to
play that uh very quiet and subtle kind
of of role uh obviously it's also one of
the Chinese that they don't like to
engage in you know political matters uh
in in in a very visible uh way uh and
their priority is to safeguard their
businesses and to and their access to
you know the resources and the lands and
the factories and everything they have
in Sudan but also in the region um and
it's very interesting that a lot of
Sudanese sorry Chinese businesses in
various a have kept on running after the
war erupted they made sure that you know
these interests are safeguarded and so
on but on the political side I think
they've had a very limited uh role and
they haven't sh sh any biases uh you
know other towards rsf or shaf mainly to
make sure that they are safeguarding uh
you know the their business and their
influence their you know commercial
influence uh in in that sense I think
when it comes to religion um obviously
as as mentioned the war has taken
Dimensions that go beyond the power
struggle uh between between the Armed
Forces uh so so there there has been a
lot of documented attacks specifically
on um religious minority minorities
Christians and copics and churches and
and so on um but also the role of of of
political leaders and by extension uh I
would say more uh I don't use the word
traditional but more native uh leaders
and na Administration who have a very
religious kind of um you know identity
to their to the to their roles and so on
and there have been a lot of um
manipulation uh and I think in most
cases by the rap support forces but also
in in many other uh places by by by the
Army and so on to get these uh leaders
to mobilize and to uh get more fighters
to join these groups and and so on but
then there have also been a few others
who have been playing positive roles in
terms of ADV vo ating for you know
social cohesion and peace and trying to
get the protect the communities together
and so on and I think it's it's very
much important when you think about the
police a peace process uh we think about
how do you do we engage and you know
include these um leaders who are have
very you know a lot of influence and
Power on on their communities to make
sure that they're not being you know
pushed into um political manipulation of
of theing
factions thank you hammed our next
question uh we you know have a lot of
questions already but yes please
continue submitting your questions and I
will do my best to get through all of
them um uh our next question is from
Nadia Saka uh from United Kingdom I
think this is question more for you am
uh Nadia says I read somewhere that this
that Sudan shows a successful story of
local committees delivering Aid
um in Lo uh uh and ensuring Security in
local neighborhoods is this true could
they be uh the hope for peace and
stability in Sudan also to what extent
could civil society and especially women
L organizations Bridge uh bridge between
the two sudans and even between the many
fragmented societies now being created
inside of the one Sudan
so very multi-layer question so yes but
I think there is one answer to give them
the access to be in political
participation if they've been in
political participation and they can't
talk to the International Community they
can make a lot okay if I understand the
question right I think I'm try to read
it asking our women uh Le organizations
and youthless organizations could be the
answer to uh brid in these um okay I
think Muhammad we need to to make it
clear the organization in Sudan now
during the war is not that systematic
organization it's a local movement and
local initiative that's why we call it
Grassroots
movement they they see what the people
need and they start initiative they
start to Collective donation and they
work okay uh so so uh with that I turn
to for a question from
farahani from Romania Farah is asking
who is covering the news in Sudan um and
uh as I as I hear that the reason we
don't know much about it is because the
news is controlled by the rapid support
forces what's your reaction to
that I mean yes you know unfortunately
so in the period after 20 2019 there was
a lot of um websites that were that were
that started they were registered
outside Sudan and they were showing a
lot of this information some of them
were even like connected to Vagner and
so on so and this information is is
different from misinformation
misinformation is just like fake news
but this information is when the news
are manipulated for political purposes
so yes so so they have a lot of un
newused infrastructure before the war
and they also buy a lot of accounts and
on on you know Twitter accounts Facebook
accounts and they have been buying a lot
of pages that have large numbers of
followers so the rsf has a lot of
presence uh definitely online a very
strong presence um but I also think
there's so many other reasons that that
the war is not covered as much one of
them is is the fact that um there other
conflicts you know they sometimes they
they they just get more coverage and
also the fact that um there's a lot of
politics involved in the in the the
world of news and news Outlet so it's
definitely affected basically that Sudan
sometimes gets deprioritized as a result
um a lot of uh you know uh agencies also
don't invest money to like you know send
reporters to Sudan and so on especially
that the situation is um you know is
unknown and especially that um there's a
lot of uh a lot of telecommunications
blackouts that are happening and and the
telecommunication blackouts are
affecting the the journalist in the
country so they are unable to cover the
the news as they as they would the
international and the local journalists
who have been un who have been really
struggling to cover the news because of
the Telecommunications blackout and it's
also affecting citizen journalists who
are a very important voice in sharing
the everyday concerns and the everyday
struggles in getting their voices out
because sometimes the internet is down
for days and sometimes the electricity
is is out for days so people can don't
find ways to connect so unfortunately
it's um it's a it's an issue of
infrastructure it's an issue of conflict
and it's also an issue of just politics
and like I said also an issue that the
rsf has invested heavily in building and
and use infrastructure before the war so
that they could manipulate the narrative
and spread a lot of
propaganda thank you re so the next
question I would like you all to
actually take a stab at answering um
because it's basically a policy
recommendation
um our question come from Ambassador
Anna BL Maser uh who's the special Envoy
for Sudan uh for Sweden um Anna's asking
uh is saying thank you all very
interesting how do you think sanctions
could help or
not I can go first if you want yeah uh
and I I think sanctions can be very
effective tools however pursuing
sanctions on their own without a comp
comprehensive uh po strategy uh is is
problematic uh I think uh there is
evidence that sanctions that have been
used so far had some influence for
instance there are a lot of reports of
how sanctions on the brother of the rsf
leader Us San particularly has kind of
uh you know pushed him to engage more
with the US and try to get his name off
the list uh so yeah sanctions can work
however when that you know you have that
influence and so on but it's not
leveraged into a peace process for
instance and it's not being used as a
full strategy and so on it gets you know
wasted and it becomes uh just in vain
also sanctions placed in you know only
sanctioning the Sudanese actors uh who
are fuel who are leading on the war and
so on without um putting serious
measures and sanctions on on on their
inter Regional and international backers
is also quite problematic because if you
sanction all leaders in sud all of the
you know Generals in Sudan but they're
still being supported from outside uh
and no one is holding the international
backers to account uh we are not going
to get
anywhere thank
you
sorry
are yeah sanctions are very important I
think it's also about sometimes you
cannot use the same sanctions on
different people so yesterday for
example we saw us sanctions on two
individuals from the rsf but they're
likely never going to go to the US start
bank accounts there and so on one of
them probably have not heard of the US
you know the a very low-level kind of
field you know general or sorry field
leader so I think I think you you canot
use the same you know method for
different uh you know so definitely on
the Deo brothers or on the um on the
generals who have a business interests
you know it is very important to
sanction them but like hammed said it's
it's part of it's part of a of a
mechanism right so you're sanctioning
them so that they can go to the uh to
the to the to the table to sit down and
negotiate so if you do sanction them and
this does not happen then I think we
need other mechanisms you know we need
um other mechanisms we have to talk
about Justice we have to talk about
immunity we have to talk about other
things that maybe care about more uh so
I think it's definitely important to
just um figure out you know how they can
um uh you know how to really pressure
them and find ways to pressure them uh
some people want to be paid off you know
so so I think we have to think about
what they want really you know um the
same method cannot work for everyone um
so I think this is important thank
you thank you and I would like to add
you know not all sanctions are created
equal some well Muhammad if I can if can
I add something uh the section I'm agree
with r and hammed but I uh I want to say
something here in East African countries
uh they they denied us from receiving
any money and they say there a saction
in Sudan and it's like it's been a
saction of all sudanes faction should be
more clear it's against the leaders
against the political people not against
the the against the against sorry sorry
against sud theese people because even
we cannot receive any aid from outside
and I'm agree with re if you want to put
section you do it in the key factors
there is a gold faction here there's a
lot of things yes why you didn't put
section on
that exactly not all sanctions are
created equal uh some have immeasurable
unintended the consequences uh as every
Sudanese will tell you uh their own
trauma with sanctions uh we have been
born under sanctions most of us most
people alive today in Sudan just think
about it have been born while Sudan was
comprehensively sanctioned um and yeah
uh it's
uh a word that you know brings with it a
lot of trauma but we also acknowledge
the role of sanctions in you know ending
the atrocities in their for back in you
know and or reducing them significantly
uh we do know they can work but only
when thoughtfully done and is not just a
policy a lazy policy but more of a
tactic to get specific results starting
with s designation of Sudan gold as
blood gold and perhaps invoking strong
sanctions like uh Global magnitsky uh
sanctions against uh States who are
actively uh uh benefiting from this uh
blood uh gold could be a very powerful
way to uh for the International
Community to to stop the war um we are
at almost at the top of the of the hour
but I would like to give all of you um
an opportunity to give final words uh we
have a we might be able to go a little
bit over time uh so I would like in that
case to also so um uh squeeze uh a
little bit uh one question that I found
quite um interesting from LA tongen from
priter college uh United
States um is asking two questions one
for Hamid um can you elaborate or
discern the ideological orientations of
the two sides because it's unclear a
little bit what kind of Sudan they each
Envision um and two and I will ask the
questions together and it can guide your
closing remarks for all of you uh
internal conditions always create
Pathways for ex external involvement can
you all identify the various groups and
alliances which pursue their various
objectives for example the splm north um
uh Reviving guars ideas of new Sudan so
you can choose to make that your gu in
uh question or not for your closing
remarks but at this point I would like
to give each of you an opportunity to
say last words so let's start with you
ham since you have the first you know qu
you have the question directed at
you sure so in terms of ideology of both
factions I think re spoke a lot uh about
you know the the rsf spikes specifically
and what kind of you know incentives and
ideas they have uh particularly around
you know uh that they've been
marginalized that the state in the
central state does not represent them
and so on so this Dynamic about
marginalization and and so on although
as said a lot of these people also the
extended tribes and so on are
historically marginalized and so on but
I think probably the way this narrative
is being um you know perpetrated and so
is quite problematic uh and also on the
other side there is the islamists who
are in so many ways having very strong
influence on the uh Army and every day
that influence increases because um as
as also mentioned earlier the Army has
failed to get uh supporters
internationally but also from Key
political groups nationalist so getting
the influence more support from the
islamist is very important to them but I
think honestly very on like personally I
think both leaders uh I don't think they
really care for any ideologies they're
hungry for power and whatever ideology
works for them to kind of um sustain
this for and to advance and so on they
would use it so that's why I think
they're not very genuine about either of
these ideologies as you know very
closing and final remarks I think I
would say I would read
reate the point about supporting
Grassroots groups and uh empowering them
um in the humanitarian response but also
in in in political participation in
peace processes and future uh political
processes and so on but I think also
viewing that the mutual Aid groups and
the initiatives that they're leading are
not only about the humanitarian um you
know uh assistance that they're
providing this Mutual Aid and the way
it's being practiced in Sudan is an act
of politic iCal participation in itself
it's an act of resistance in itself uh
so that is very important to empower so
that the SES people could keep on having
some ageny in these very difficult times
uh I think also it's very important that
all International
actors accelerate their action and act
very quickly uh you know to protect the
people of Al faser we have there's no
time left and the risks are you know are
are massive it's imminent and a lot
needs to be done before we see you know
yet another genocide before our eyes the
documentation is there the facts are
there so that we need to see more
serious action particularly about
civilian protection and I think in that
sense there are two issues that I could
highlight in terms of taking civilian at
protection more seriously and holding
the Waring factions to account a
extending the arms embargo across the
country there's an arms embargo now in
that for it needs to be extended across
the country
and it needs to be fully implemented
because it's not being there are no
mechanisms following that up and so on
then as also was mentioned earlier that
impunity is at the heart of this war and
uh this war Builds on a history of
impunity where Waring uh generals do not
get hold held to account and so on so
that is very important uh to take into
account and in that regard I think the
international facts finding mission that
was established last year
is being Ser seriously underfunded
they're not being able to recruit people
staff they're not being able to
establish their offices and so on and I
think that should be a priority for the
international fact finding mission to be
supported so that we could have the
facts and documentations to pursue
Justice and to end the culture of
immunity thank you so much Hamed and
with that I will turn to we am for final
remarks Sudan War it's graphic change
and it's war against Sudanese people and
my last thing I'm going to say it it's a
black War but we will never draw in a
dark and we will never disappear in a in
a dark uh and we will continue fighting
for our life and we will continue be
loud even if we die from Hungary and
just keep eyes in Sudan and we will win
we will get our life
back thank
you thank you we
I mean I think this war has really um I
mean should make people understand that
Sudan's problem is not the fact that
there's a power struggle between the
military and politicians it is a crisis
in the formation of the state itself I
me we're talking about a country that
has been the first Rebellion began in
1955 even before we gained our
independence from the UK or the British
Empire at the time so I think this is a
time for us to really
reconsider you know the viability of the
Sudanese State and to really reconsider
the fact that why are there so many
rebellions against the state why are
there so many people you know calling
for things such as you know uh
abolishing the Arabic language and
replacing it with Swahili you know uh
having a secular State you know um so
many things and and changing the
identity of the state and so on I think
we have to talk about it in a as to
thees people in a very serious way that
you know what do people want and will
people stop fighting for the control of
the state and to change the identity of
the state because the because if if this
does not uh stop then the war is not
going to stop even if the war between
the rsf and the South uh stops because
the community right now is so polarized
is so hurt by this and so traumatized by
this war that we have to have a serious
discussion to really decide how we can
live together again as like as one
country thank you thank you so much re
and thank you to all our speakers uh for
being here and all our attendees and I'm
sorry I couldn't get to all your
questions um um and but thank you for uh
showing up and uh reminding us that we
are not alone uh even if International
political will and media uh May imply
that Sudan is completely forgotten uh
with with that I will turn to um uh the
CED team uh specifically to salami for
closing
remarks thank you thank you Muhammad we
am re and hammed for helping our
audience understand what's going on in
Sudan today and we hope this discussion
helps to activate more people around the
world um thank you to our team today who
helped pull off the webinar Professor
zipperstein Laura Lee and Emily pistoi
and least last but not least thank you
to the audience for joining us I know
it's very late in the day for some of
you around the world we hope you will
join us again for our next webinar which
is happening on June 5th there is
information on the screen for you um we
are in the early stages of planning um
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